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ZACK GREEN

Articles Posted: 6  Links Seeded: 8
Member Since: 6/2008  Last Seen: 4/27/2009

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Cuil's Search Algorithm: while(true) fail(epic);

Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:35 PM EDT
technology, internet, google, web, search, cuil
By Zack Green

Looks intriguing. I think I'll try it.

Cuil has a very good layout and design. I think it just needs to find itself. Literally.

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So apparently there's this new search engine out there called Cuil.

The brainchild of Anna Patterson, an ex-Google engineer, Cuil is an effort by four people (two of the others also worked at Google) to make a better search engine. Not only does it protect your privacy, it also searches through 120 billion web pages (which may or may not be more than Google indexes, nobody knows), and presents the information in a "magazine-like" format with images. Also, they claim to have more relevant search results based on page content rather than rankings. I tried Cuil out, and found out that the three claims mentioned two sentences ago are most definitely true. Those three at least.

Searching the vine for references to cite here, I found only one other article about user experience with Cuil written by Steve1151 here. Steve, my friend, I commend you, but do you really have to be that soft on them?

How bad is Cuil? Let me tell you.

I first went to Cuil.com after reading an article about it. A simple, clean page with a search box. Looked nice. I thought of what to type in.

A bit of background on me: as some may guess by my purple fuzzy fox avatar, I'm a member of a subculture called "furry." It has to do with animals being people and stuff, I won't get into it, but anyway, that's the first thing that came to mind. I typed the word "furry" without quotes.

I would have been perfectly happy had Cuil showed me some stuff on cute and cuddly furry animals and nothing related to my somewhat niche interest. After all, that's what most people think of when they hear the word "furry." A second or two after clicking the search button, I was absolutely astonished at what I saw.

We didn't find any results for "furry"

Some reasons might be...

* a typo. Please check your spelling.
* your search includes a term that is very rare. Try to find a more common substitute.
* too many search terms. Please try fewer terms.

Finally, try to think of different words to describe your search.

Wow. What?

Last I checked, "furry" was an English adjective meaning "covered with fur." You'd think maybe this word would appear somewhere on the Internet in some fashion, or at least something related to it. Not according to Cuil.

I got the same result for "fur." This is not turning out well.

To be fair, I searched for something a bit more common, "wikipedia." Ahh, now we're getting somewhere. I finally get to look at Cuil's "magazine format." It looks quite good. Little snippets of text with images next to them, as well as some related searches I might want to try, glommed together in a nice, Web 2.0y fashion. Let's see what the results are, though.

"The word on Wikipedia: Trust but verify"
"Online Wikipedia is not Brittanica, but it's close..."
"Critical views of Wikipedia - WIkinfo"

Okay, where is this Wikipedia thing everyone's talking about? Ah, here we go:

"Jennifer Lopez - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"

Really? J Lo? That's the most important Wikipedia page according to how things are listed on Cuil search? Whatever happened to, say, THE HOME PAGE? And why is it that there are "78,600,000 results for wikipedia" but you only have four pages of results, some of which list the same things as the previous pages?

Just as a final test, I typed "cuil" into the search box. I got a seemingly endless amount of pages talking about towns in Scotland. Although for some reason, more pages appeared when I clicked on the next page, which I figured was supposed to happen. This system seems more inclined to display the supposed 121,578 results for "cuil," but it didn't work when I searched for wikipedia. But let's not get distracted by that. Can we focus on the fact that this search engine doesn't know about its own existence?

Obviously, they're suffering from a little first-day syndrome. Searches were occasionally slow, and their About page produces a 404 error. But whenever a search does work, it, well, doesn't work. Or certainly not the way any normal Internet user would want it to. I don't know if there's some kind of arcane, mystical language it's looking for that would make it work (like, say, SQL). but the fact of the matter is that the average Internet user who likes Google is not going to find any reason to switch to Cuil. Hell, nobody would be interested in switching to Cuil if it runs like this.

This goes beyond a "launch problem," this is a design flaw of back-to-the-drawing-board caliber.

Or maybe it isn't. Maybe the algorithm depends on people doing searches and "training" the search engine to not suck. Well, it would be nice if you told us that, and maybe thrown in a "Pre-Alpha v0.00000000001" disclaimer for good measure. But the fact of the matter is that this search engine has been launched with every assumption that it's going to work, and it doesn't. This is absolutely unacceptable as far as Internet software goes. The only possible explanation I have for it is that it's high-brow New Yorker-esque satire commenting on everything we hate about the Internet.

UPDATE: A recent CNet article tells the tale about why things are going wrong: apparently Cuil's architecture is weird. When it gets more traffic than it can handle, it doesn't crash. It just sucks. Apparently it has a bunch of machines that index different categories, and when a particular category crashes, searches in that category start to yield useless results. It's a very interesting system, but frankly I'd prefer it work entirely or not at all.

Still, it does provide some closure as to why it's behaving this way: because it's seeing all these new, unknown people from all over the Internet and FREAKING OUT!!!! That said, a new website should never underestimate the power of news-hungry bloggers. Somebody needs to come up with a system of avoiding crashes, or in Cuil's case, nervous breakdowns.

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  • Public Discussion (18)
Sobriquet

I tried to replicate your results but everything seems okay to me. Searching for "Wikipedia" the Wikipedia page about Wikipedia was the first hit. Searching for "furry" brought up pages on animals and furries, the further suggestions/categories suggested reasonable searches and topics like "furry conventions". I'm not switching over from Google at this point, but I will keep an eye on Cuil.

For the record I am definitely not a furry.

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:22 PM EDT
Zack Green

Well, to be fair, I'm impressed with how much improvement they've shown in mere hours. I still don't find it useful in its current state, but the fact that it used to be totally broken and is now produces sort of relevant results is a testament to the fact that they're working on it.

Still, couldn't they have done this work before releasing a "finished" product?

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:58 PM EDT
Reply
finalcut

A search for "Mediamonkey" returns no results either. A search for "Media monkey" returns a bunch of results - the first for the software "mediamonkey"

A search for "Windows music manager" also has a link for mediamonkey - but it is via some shareware site.

A search for my name as a link to a malware site in the first four pages of results. Almost all of the other results are for an actor who has done nothing since 1983 (and he did little before that) and a plumber in New Zealand. On any other search engine the first two results for my name are typically me and a virologist in Australia.

Overall I am unimpressed by the engine. Also, their name is trouble for them. My wife heard about them on an NPR show discussing "Cool - the new search Engine" since Cuil is pronounced "Cool". I went to "Cool.com" to see what it was but that is just a parked page claiming to use the "Oxide search engine" so I went to Oxide.com and found their "search engine" only to discover it does nothing.. It's just a front to show advertisements. So not only dues the Cuil search engine not work very well but their name isn't very good either (since it is archaic and the pronunciation leads people to the wrong Cool).

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:44 PM EDT
Zack Green

Honestly, if they can work out the problems with the search algorithm (i.e. rewrite it), I think the name will catch on. If millions of people want to play with their Wii, I don't see how Cuil is such a stretch.

  • 2 votes
#2.1 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:14 PM EDT
PrezO

79,554 results for mediamonkey

  • 1 vote
#2.2 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:25 PM EDT
finalcut

interesting, I wonder what changed to go from 0 to 79,554 results...

fun fact though- if I click on "page 2" to see additional results I get the

We didn't find any results for "mediamonkey"

Some reasons might be...

* a typo. Please check your spelling.
* your search includes a term that is very rare. Try to find a more common substitute.
* too many search terms. Please try fewer terms.

Finally, try to think of different words to describe your search.

error.

I wonder, is the result count not a truth? Is there some other bug? What's up.

Also, I don't feel the results that do show up on the first page, are nearly as relevant as those found at any of the main search engines. For example, returning to my name.

The 7th result is to some kind of bogus page that is incredibly suspicious and makes me think it is actually a malware site. The little synopsis of it on the cuil results page is totally misleading as to what is actually on the page.

As for the other results I don't really care so much that some actor who hasn't acted since 1983 dominates the first page of results or that a plumber in New Zealand shows up as result #2. I am pretty surprised the virologist isn't on the first page at all. Likewise I'm surprised that some pages that are very tangential to my online presence show up on page 1 while the root of my online presence (any of my blogs at all) don't show up anywhere in the first 22 pages of results (I got kind of tired of looking). I am mentioned a ton in comments on many other sites in those first 22 pages but none of those sites are particularly authorative sources about me. THe only result that shows up in the first 21 pages that is truly by me and about me is my claimid page which has links to pretty much every page I own/author.

They may be improving (a single page of results claiming 75k for mediamonkey) but it still doesn't strike me as useful.

Now, onto the naming issue. The Wii is selling well - but nobody has to type in its name to buy it and, once you own it, even if you bought it online, you never really have to type in the name again. Cuil on the other hand is not a brand that can easily grow via word of mouth becuase people have to know the archaic spelling and A LOT of people will mispell it as cool.com and then get burned by the advert camping site that is waiting there. How many times do you think people will go to cool.com - see it is a joke and not giving them valid results, and then just go back to google or yahoo without ever trying to find out it should have been "cuil.com"

Add onto the fact that a ton of the early adopters have been trying cuil.com over the past day and, undoubtedly having similar issues to those many of us here have had, and a lot of the early adopters won't go back to it either because it didn't wow them out the gates.

Cuil had an opportunity to steal my business - they failed to do so. I can't think of a single reason to continue to try to use their service when google and yahoo already do a great job of getting what I want and Cuil still has to get through some growing pains.

  • 3 votes
#2.3 - Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:57 AM EDT
Reply
Viki Babbles Gonia

It finds 0 results when I search for my name as Viki Gonia, as opposed to 7940 from Google. Searching for Viki Babbles Gonia gets me all Newsvine results (which I suppose is to be expected), but my blog is also called Vikibabbles.com, so there should have been plenty of returns from that as well.

I write for a newspaper, and while it is a small suburban-Chicago newspaper, it probably should have been picked up. It's part of the Sun Times, for god's sake.

And what finalcut says above about the name--every article I've read about this must point out that it's pronounced "cool."

Methinks it'll be a bit of a flop. It's certainly not even close to enticing me away from Google.

  • 3 votes
Reply#3 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:55 PM EDT
PrezO

3,150 results for viki gonia

  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:26 PM EDT
Viki Babbles Gonia

Thanks, PrezO. I've been meaning to go back and check if it had improved.

I will not rest until I dominate the internet, though, so until it reads something like 999999999999999999999999 results for "viki gonia," I'll continue complaining. ;)

  • 3 votes
#3.2 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:31 PM EDT
Reply
Eric Atienza

Google took me less than a second to give me 97,000 results on my name, 6 of the first 10 were me (which is consistent with other search engines over the last 4-5 years.)

My first search on Cuil took longer than that to give me no results, and subsequent searches on the same term just hung.

Not a great first impression.

  • 2 votes
Reply#4 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:06 PM EDT
PrezO

4,998 results for Eric Atienza

  • 1 vote
#4.1 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:30 PM EDT
Eric Atienza

Certainly works better than the non-functioning I had when I first used it, but I still don't find it as useful as Google. It's nice that various Newsvine pages relating to me dominate the first two pages of results, but several of the pages are repeats, and it's still coming up with far fewer relevant pages than Google (though practically the difference between 97000 and 5000 for me is negligible it just makes me wonder what's not getting picked up.)

  • 2 votes
#4.2 - Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:44 AM EDT
Reply
Brad Leclerc

I can't search at all, just says...

"Sorry, an error occurred.

Please try your search again. If the problem persists, please be assured that our team is working quickly to resolve the issue.
"

  • 1 vote
Reply#5 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:28 PM EDT
Red Wolf

I managed to find one of my sites, but what's with the moronic images that have nothing to do with the site or the search term?

A explicit secondary search for an site that generates a decent amount of traffic produced a single result to a linkfarm I've never heard of that's scraped my site at some point in the past. Lame.

And these guys claim to be taking on Google? Epic fail.

  • 3 votes
Reply#6 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:15 PM EDT
PrezO

Is this you?

www.redwolf.com.au/column/

It was the second on the list.

  • 1 vote
#6.1 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:53 PM EDT
Reply
PrezO

100+ tries and yet to hit an error.

  • 1 vote
Reply#7 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:34 PM EDT
Zack Green

Are the results relevant, though?

  • 2 votes
#7.1 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:40 PM EDT
PrezO

Yeah. So far, so good.

Latest search: Amazon.

I wanted the river.

Cuil, it was on the top of the right column. Didn't have to scroll.
Google, it was the eighth result from the top. Had to scroll down to see it.

  • 1 vote
#7.2 - Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:56 PM EDT
Reply
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